Originally posted by jaymdubbs
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Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. - Psalm 144:1
As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another - Proverbs 27:17
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Yes, Bruce took techniques (and ideas) from (I beleive) 26 different styles, that included everything from fencing, western boxing and judo to karate, kung fu and muay thai.
But the driving force of JKD is not it's techniques, it's the concepts of training attributes and its philosophies on martial arts in general. If you studied all of the 26 styles and mastered them, you will still not have mastered JKD. It's totally different.
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Originally posted by RenegadeRowsYes, Bruce took techniques (and ideas) from (I beleive) 26 different styles, that included everything from fencing, western boxing and judo to karate, kung fu and muay thai.
But the driving force of JKD is not it's techniques, it's the concepts of training attributes and its philosophies on martial arts in general. If you studied all of the 26 styles and mastered them, you will still not have mastered JKD. It's totally different.
But in the end, what he did was take all these numerous techniques, all these ideals of the arts, and go through them and use what he felt worked best for him and discarded what he thought wasn't worth keeping. That right there is pick and choose. Can't be any clearer.
I also understand that JKD has different applications to different people and different arts. Techniques that work for ME and which I feel are effective based on numerous factors may not be true for you. I understand this, as my systems grand master trained Bruce in Kenpo and assisted, albiet a minor role, in the evolution of JKD.
I'm not discounting Bruce in his thinking, or his effectiveness, but end of the day, he picked and chose what he felt worked from various arts. That was my point and it stands.Last edited by Spartan; 11-29-2006, 08:22 PM.Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. - Psalm 144:1
As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another - Proverbs 27:17
Current Supps:
Purple Wraath
Green Magnitude
Orange Triad
White Flood
Blue Up
100% ON Classic Whey
Ninety percent of everything is crap.
Theodore Sturgeon
US science fiction author (1918 - 1985)
Comment
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You are entitlted to your opinion, however, coming from someone in the JKD community, it is incorrect. I'll repeat JKD is NOT a martial art buffet as you sound like you are saying. I think our definition of pick and choose maybe different and that is what is getting lost in translation.
Quote from Tim Tackett and Chris Kent's book Jun Fan JKD the textbook
"Lets say a person learns as many different martial arts as possible. He may study Western boxing, Wing Chun, Kali, Savate, Muay Thai, Jiu Jitsu, and Pentjak silat. Lets say he takes what works for hime from these various styles. Is what he ends up with JKD? Not necessarily. JKD is more than just an electic martial art. It is more than just grabbing techniques from various martial arts. It is more than an accumulation of techniques. There must be a common thread. In Fact, JKD can be partially defined as a search for a common thread. There must be a common thread, an alaysis and a concept of what will work for you."
Case in point - take the technique Pak Sao from wing chun. It means slap and hit. this "technique" is found in kali, silat, mantis, choy lee fut and a few other martial arts. all the arts execute this differently, but essentially its the same damn thing. The principle behind a pak sao or slap hit is to remove the obstruction so your attack can follow a straight line to the target. Regardless of style, the technique has the same CORE principles (and this is what bruce was interested in)
THIS IS WHAT BRUCE WAS DOING. FINDING THE COMMON THREAD or PRINCIPLE BEHIND VARIOUS TECHNIQUES to make it so he could express it himself. Look how many ways there are to kick. Look how many ways there are to punch. Bruce stated that as long as we as humans have 2 arms and 2 legs theres only so many different ways we can initiate an attack.
To clarify, Bruce RESEARCHED 26 different arts. He didnt take techniques from 26 different arts.
He did not pick and chose, he extensively researched and economized the motion to be extremely effective at executing ANY technique or motion.
From what I understand, Bruce never trained in Kenpo because he was already better than any of Ed Parker's blackbelts while he was discovered at the long beach tournament. Thats why almost most of BL's chinatown students were former kenpo blackbelts. of course, theres always 2 sides to any story. i got that info from an ed parker blackbelt who left the system for JKD. go figure
In the end, I dont expect to force my beliefs on you. You have a few misconceptions of JKD that I wish I could have fixed it. However, there are some aspects you do have a firm grasp of., so im going to leave it at that.
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Originally posted by jaymdubbsYou are entitlted to your opinion, however, coming from someone in the JKD community, it is incorrect. I'll repeat JKD is NOT a martial art buffet as you sound like you are saying. I think our definition of pick and choose maybe different and that is what is getting lost in translation.
Quote from Tim Tackett and Chris Kent's book Jun Fan JKD the textbook
"Lets say a person learns as many different martial arts as possible. He may study Western boxing, Wing Chun, Kali, Savate, Muay Thai, Jiu Jitsu, and Pentjak silat. Lets say he takes what works for hime from these various styles. Is what he ends up with JKD? Not necessarily. JKD is more than just an electic martial art. It is more than just grabbing techniques from various martial arts. It is more than an accumulation of techniques. There must be a common thread. In Fact, JKD can be partially defined as a search for a common thread. There must be a common thread, an alaysis and a concept of what will work for you."
Case in point - take the technique Pak Sao from wing chun. It means slap and hit. this "technique" is found in kali, silat, mantis, choy lee fut and a few other martial arts. all the arts execute this differently, but essentially its the same damn thing. The principle behind a pak sao or slap hit is to remove the obstruction so your attack can follow a straight line to the target. Regardless of style, the technique has the same CORE principles (and this is what bruce was interested in)
THIS IS WHAT BRUCE WAS DOING. FINDING THE COMMON THREAD or PRINCIPLE BEHIND VARIOUS TECHNIQUES to make it so he could express it himself. Look how many ways there are to kick. Look how many ways there are to punch. Bruce stated that as long as we as humans have 2 arms and 2 legs theres only so many different ways we can initiate an attack.
To clarify, Bruce RESEARCHED 26 different arts. He didnt take techniques from 26 different arts.
He did not pick and chose, he extensively researched and economized the motion to be extremely effective at executing ANY technique or motion.
From what I understand, Bruce never trained in Kenpo because he was already better than any of Ed Parker's blackbelts while he was discovered at the long beach tournament. Thats why almost most of BL's chinatown students were former kenpo blackbelts. of course, theres always 2 sides to any story. i got that info from an ed parker blackbelt who left the system for JKD. go figure
In the end, I dont expect to force my beliefs on you. You have a few misconceptions of JKD that I wish I could have fixed it. However, there are some aspects you do have a firm grasp of., so im going to leave it at that.Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. - Psalm 144:1
As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another - Proverbs 27:17
Current Supps:
Purple Wraath
Green Magnitude
Orange Triad
White Flood
Blue Up
100% ON Classic Whey
Ninety percent of everything is crap.
Theodore Sturgeon
US science fiction author (1918 - 1985)
Comment
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Originally posted by jaymdubbsI would agree it is one of the better traditional MA's. In terms of traditional MA though, my heart is content with Silat and Kali.
Technically it's traditional, I guess it depends on the school.
My particular kenpo school had us go on a field trip and shoot pistols at a range (lol.) A few of the guys at the school were cops, and the sensei thought it was a good thing to learn how to do (it is/was.)
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Originally posted by RenegadeRowsTechnically it's traditional, I guess it depends on the school.
My particular kenpo school had us go on a field trip and shoot pistols at a range (lol.) A few of the guys at the school were cops, and the sensei thought it was a good thing to learn how to do (it is/was.)
Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. - Psalm 144:1
As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another - Proverbs 27:17
Current Supps:
Purple Wraath
Green Magnitude
Orange Triad
White Flood
Blue Up
100% ON Classic Whey
Ninety percent of everything is crap.
Theodore Sturgeon
US science fiction author (1918 - 1985)
Comment
-
Thats interesting. Ive seen similar situations and I've seen both outcomes - someone being disarmed and the person with a weapon prevailing. Plain and simple when a weapon is involved there is no predicting what will happen, so train both with and with out, against and not against. I know for a fact know if i tried to disarm an experienced escrimador id be dead in about 2 seconds. so until i become good enough to disarm, id like to know how to equalize the situation.
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Originally posted by jaymdubbsThats interesting. Ive seen similar situations and I've seen both outcomes - someone being disarmed and the person with a weapon prevailing. Plain and simple when a weapon is involved there is no predicting what will happen, so train both with and with out, against and not against. I know for a fact know if i tried to disarm an experienced escrimador id be dead in about 2 seconds. so until i become good enough to disarm, id like to know how to equalize the situation.Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. - Psalm 144:1
As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another - Proverbs 27:17
Current Supps:
Purple Wraath
Green Magnitude
Orange Triad
White Flood
Blue Up
100% ON Classic Whey
Ninety percent of everything is crap.
Theodore Sturgeon
US science fiction author (1918 - 1985)
Comment
-
Any instructor I have had has also said its best to run. Youre going to have those one in a million chances, so its best to know how. That is why I am constantly researching different arts and their weapon delivery to learn their ranges and how to counter. Kali is only one of many extremely efficient systems that has phenomonal weapons work AND empty hands. I know disarms and arm immobilizations, but I am nowhere near efficient or fast enough yet to pull them off 100 percent power and speed. (Empty hands vs. empty hands def., but not against weapons)
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