Saints

[Spartan]

those are prejudice sterotypes..

media has sterotyped asian americans as that (look at movies/tv -- how often is an asian a scientist or math person, not the romantic lover? in fact, how many times have you seen an asian actor in a kissing/sex scence?)

Sterotypes are labels we create for individuals to make life easier on us..

when we approach someone unknown we immediately label them as what we see --- old/young, black/white/asian etc. - blondee/dark hair/etc. -- fat/skinny/etc -- when sterotypes turn into "all asians are good at math" or "all african-americans are lazy" you get prejudice, and when prejudice is acted upon you get racism and/or discrimination.

sounds like your professor was racist, and an idiot.

I'd have to go with a bit of both. My wife is hispanic and well, you could imagine the stereotypes of mexicans in america. Think that's one reason I got so offended. However, everywhere you look there is racism/discrimination. First caucasians were prejudiced to african americans, then african americans instituted reverse-discrimination, then both moved to discriminating asians and hispanics. I could go further down the ladder, but you see the point. Eventually it get's into different sub-structures of the race in discussion and one side being discriminitory to the other within the same demographic. However, we are a society built on stereotypes and unfortunately on racism as well. Too much of the majority in this country (people in general, not demographic make up) work off this manner of thinking. They teach their children and they pass it on again and again and again. Unfortunately, America is probably the worst practitioner of this mentality. No wonder the world views us the way they do. We've had segregation and affirmative action on both sides of the spectrum for the last 50 years, and our media STILL makes a big deal over the fact 2 coaches in the NFL, who happen to be black, are in the Super Bowl. I seriously despise the mentality of America. I also can't stand though, is this fact that everything has to be so fucking politically correct. You can't say word one to someone without worrying if they'll take it offense, or say it was sexist/racist/enuindo(sp). We're too much a country of extremes. It's pathetic.

[jiritt0]

I agree, racism/prejudice is something thats taught to children through their parents and the media exclusively. We aren't born believe Asians are smart, or jews are clean; its an idea we pick up one way or another, and over time it develops into a cut/paste idea of how we view people; and then overcoming these obstecles in everyday life is extremely difficult. When we see an asain thats a trashman, we would frown down on that more than if he were african-american (which is a shame, race shouldn't mean a thing in any case)

theres so much research on prejudice and racism its pretty intense.. 1 point i found to be very interesting was on a study done recently that revisited 2 older studies. the newest one occured around 9/11 and the first one was in 1959 i believe (around the end of racism? or during? i duno history)

but anyways, african americans were viewed as the least favorable in each study, what is EXTREMELY suprising, is that african-americans were viewed less favorable then middle easterns in the most recent study; which occured shortly after 9/11...

how far has america truly come since the civil rights movement? sure, legally african-americans and other races have the same laws as us; but do they get the same privelages? respect? or opportunities? Not a chance...

My psychology of prejudice professor is african-american, and i feel it makes the class even more interesting! Apparantly he has beenpulled over 20 times since he began teaching (and he is a very young prof) and never recieved a warning or sitation, and he estimated than near 85% of the time they want to search his car!! (he has dreads too)

wal-mart as well; look at all the hair care for white caucasians, you might find 1 or 2 bottles for african-americas --- and only 1 company sells dark/toned band-aids; which are alot more expensive

[Sethva]

We need to make a new section on the board. Spartan & Jdiritto debate section

[Spartan]

I agree, racism/prejudice is something thats taught to children through their parents and the media exclusively. We aren't born believe Asians are smart, or jews are clean; its an idea we pick up one way or another, and over time it develops into a cut/paste idea of how we view people; and then overcoming these obstecles in everyday life is extremely difficult. When we see an asain thats a trashman, we would frown down on that more than if he were african-american (which is a shame, race shouldn't mean a thing in any case)

theres so much research on prejudice and racism its pretty intense.. 1 point i found to be very interesting was on a study done recently that revisited 2 older studies. the newest one occured around 9/11 and the first one was in 1959 i believe (around the end of racism? or during? i duno history)

but anyways, african americans were viewed as the least favorable in each study, what is EXTREMELY suprising, is that african-americans were viewed less favorable then middle easterns in the most recent study; which occured shortly after 9/11...

how far has america truly come since the civil rights movement? sure, legally african-americans and other races have the same laws as us; but do they get the same privelages? respect? or opportunities? Not a chance...

My psychology of prejudice professor is african-american, and i feel it makes the class even more interesting! Apparantly he has beenpulled over 20 times since he began teaching (and he is a very young prof) and never recieved a warning or sitation, and he estimated than near 85% of the time they want to search his car!! (he has dreads too)

wal-mart as well; look at all the hair care for white caucasians, you might find 1 or 2 bottles for african-americas --- and only 1 company sells dark/toned band-aids; which are alot more expensive

Well, let's hit this one topic at a time. First, if you look at the majority of studies based on demographics regardless of the results, it's from prominent caucasian/asian owned/based labs and clinics. I always find bias in those reports. However, what was true, after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor after 9/11, people of Asian and of Arabic decent and appearance were arrested more, profiled more, and harassed more even though they lived here prior to the event. People, plain and simple, hate those that aren't like them. It's almost like it's human nature or bred into our mentality.

Second, I can speak of this alittle more knowingly, but your professor is obviously "profiled". That's a term that is both good and bad. Bad for the one being profiled, good for law enforcement personnel. Just from what you said, young black male with dread locks/braids. That would be a red flag. What kind of car does he drive? Location of incident? Time of day? Things like that all play into his being profiled. As far as searching a car, before I was a police officer and I would get pulled over, it was rather routine for me too. (Caucasian male FYI). Certain things police are taught to look for, motions the driver makes, etc etc.

Last, while true that caucasians may seem to have more products available to them for health and beauty, that's not really the case. African americans are abit unique as far as hygenic needs. Their hair is different as far as texture, coarseness, and other attributes. A lot of the lotions/shampoos/soaps actually will cause allergic reactions because they have differing skin types as well. So it then obviously would cost companies more to produce these products which is up to them of they want to enter that market.

It just amazes me that we live in what is suppose to be the greatest country in the world, yet here we more infighting between groups, more name calling, more hatred, more bias, and anything else you can think to call the differences between the people of this country. It's like Yoda says...
"Fear leads to Anger. Anger leads to Hate. Hate leads to suffering." Stupid movie, truthful line. Go back to the time of slavery and that makes more sense than ever as to the way the United States "evolved". United my ass.
Again, I'm moving to Canada, or Mexico, both have hot women so it's A O.K.

[Spartan]

We need to make a new section on the board. Spartan & Jdiritto debate section

Smart ass. Join in then.

[jiritt0]

In theory, racial profiling is the same believing in racist sterotypes?

The guy is african-american and has dreads; does that make him a drug dealer? or some kind of felon? I don't understand how some people honestly beleive in the sterotypes we have created; it's like, can you possibly be that arrogant and nieve to realize everyone is exactly the same, were all just brought into this world with a different set of genetics and environmental setting (which somewhat translates into opportunity potential)


I'm blindsided by people when they make jokes or point out someones race in instances; like that is the reason for whatever is happening.. no, its not their race; its who they are.

The health product analogy was just a way to pictureize the white privelage.. a white woman goes to wal-mart she has the world at her fingertips of products to buy; a black woman does she has like 1 or 2 choices! Unless you live in an inner city, how difficult do you think it is for an african-american to find a decent hair stylist thats able to cut their hair? How often do you think an afircan-american is surronded completely by black people? How often do most white-caucasians have to be surronded by anyone outside of their race?

there are white privelages everywhere; it's fairly identical to male privelages; we have so many its hard to reconize them all, but they all exist and operate to give males that little edge in life.

[Spartan]

Racial profiling would fall into the same catergory of racial stereotypes IMO. However, like we've said, it is what it is. I mean, police do that because if you look at the jail populations around the country, I'd wager in a very large majority of those that african americans are the highest demographic. You can look at criminal justice studies, court case numbers, and any number of other information parlayed into that field, and african american males are the number one most arrested, most incarcerated demographic in the United States.

True, that a persons race should have NOTHING to do with where they get to in life, but that's not always the case either. However, unless you can be certain a persons knowledge, skills, nepotism, or whatever didn't play a part in it, then people WILL write it off to race. Most people will look at a person in a field and if they don't "fit", then it was a racial hire. Unreal. That's social deviations for you.

About the health products/etc, what gets me is not really the disparity in health products for caucasians, asians, african americans, hispanics, etc. Really those aren't an issue here in Chicago. It actually falls more in the opposite direction of what you were saying about finding places that do hair/nails/hygiene for minorities here. But the fact that an african american establishment will charge their own people an arm and a leg for doing nails, getting a haircut, doing braids, etc. To talk to this girl I work with and find out she pays $200 bucks every two weeks to get hair and nails done, that's unreal. I'm apparently in the wrong field then. Also, depending on where you live, you'll see a larger difference than you think about cultural mixing. Like I said, here in Chicago, there is a larger populus of african americans and hispanics, with less asians and caucasians. However, heading out by my parents south of the city, those two demographics begin to flip. It's all location mainly.

You say caucasians get alot of priviledges. In some aspects I'd agree, but at the same time, it doesn't hold as true as you might think. Colleges now are taking african american students in larger numbers even if the grades are lower than another demographic just to accomidate affirmative action. Same with employers. Student loans are more "directed" as well. You see the "United Negro College Fund". But if it was for caucasians, there would be hell to pay.

African americans are probably in a stronger overall position as far as "political correctness" goes as well. BET (Black Entertainment Television). You could never get WET, or HET, or AET. Granted, each demographic might have programing directed to them, but you can never come out and say it is other than the african american market. So I would have to say that african americans are afforded more priviledges, but on a lesser scale. Unless you're a rich/well-off caucasian, you don't get many either.

However, what is true is what you said about the male's getting more, but of course, that'll be that way for a long time anyways. Not saying it's right, but it's still a man's market, and as the saying goes, "it's a man's world." Women are getting there, but slowly. That's of course thanks to the WASP's (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants). All the rich old caucasians that own more than you or I ever will still run the country, and will for a long time too.

[Spartan]

Damn, got me writing a fucking book now.

[jiritt0]

Racial profiling would fall into the same catergory of racial stereotypes IMO. However, like we've said, it is what it is. I mean, police do that because if you look at the jail populations around the country, I'd wager in a very large majority of those that african americans are the highest demographic. You can look at criminal justice studies, court case numbers, and any number of other information parlayed into that field, and african american males are the number one most arrested, most incarcerated demographic in the United States.

if your looking for something more frequently; your going to find it more often than not.

You say caucasians get alot of priviledges. In some aspects I'd agree, but at the same time, it doesn't hold as true as you might think. Colleges now are taking african american students in larger numbers even if the grades are lower than another demographic just to accomidate affirmative action. Same with employers. Student loans are more "directed" as well. You see the "United Negro College Fund". But if it was for caucasians, there would be hell to pay.

In general who is going to get accepted into college first? Also, accepting/hiring people of different ethnicities/races/religions solely to add diversity is still racism.

African americans are probably in a stronger overall position as far as "political correctness" goes as well. BET (Black Entertainment Television). You could never get WET, or HET, or AET. Granted, each demographic might have programing directed to them, but you can never come out and say it is other than the african american market. So I would have to say that african americans are afforded more priviledges, but on a lesser scale. Unless you're a rich/well-off caucasian, you don't get many either.

do you watch prime time television? how many shows have black actors? how many black actors have lead roles? how many shows revolve around actors that aren't white? BET is a necessitiy if african-americans want to see their kind to the extent whites do (a white privelage)

Below is the list of white privelages from the article I read. The author has a list of male privelage too

i never really thought about alot of these, which made reading it even more shocking! True; some of them may be pushing limits to an extent, but i still found it to be a very interesting paper.

http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac...Unpacking.html


1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.

3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.

9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.

12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.

13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

14. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.

15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.

16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.

28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.

29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.

32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.

33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.

37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.

38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.

39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.

43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.

44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.

45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.

46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.

47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.

48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.

49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.

50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.

[Spartan]

Nice piece. However, a majority of the 1-50, could honestly go to any demographic, not just "white privaledge". To be honest, if I hadn't read them all and checked the link, I'd have said it was a non-caucasian writting it for the most part. However, checking the link, I'd have to disagree with the author. Reading the other excerpts, I got a feeling like they were self-loathing. Like their being caucasian was actually being seen as a burden.

How far must an african american go to see people of their race on TV? Not far really. If you look at the 18-34 demographic, you'll see alot of the programing isn't of solely caucasian course. Rap/hip-hop dominates MTV. Comedy programming is largely equal across all demographics except Asian and Indian. The majority of sports stars in three of the big four sports (Basketball, Baseball, Football) are either african american or hispanic. A large and growing number of political candidates are african american. So to say that white privaledge is abounding wouldn't fit entirely.

Both sides have their advantages and disadvantages, but honestly, neither should. Hard work, education and integrity should dictate who does and goes where. But it doesn't. Such is life in the US of A. Racism is all over, and we'll never escape it, sadly.

[Sethva]

This is some great reading, as I studied race in the media, for 2 years and mutiple classes. Its very shocking what you'd find out and the way you look at the media after studying it.

Good stuff