Controlled Labs Needs This!!!

[Spartan]

a pepsi also has 40mg of caffeine.. if 200 mg caffeine isnt enough your abusing it (unless you weigh like 420lb, and yes i only put that because i wanted to type 420).

in theory your response is very similiar to a cocaine addict saying 1 bump isn't enough. . ..
Your tolerant to the drug, and quite possibly mayhave a psycho-physio dependance.


I did recall once hearing cocaine and other drugs give you a life long tolerance to stimulants... but weather or not this is scientifically evident is disputable; it may be more of a learned behavioral tolerance to stimulants...

A 12 oz. Pepsi has 40mg of caffeine. Also, the simple fact that I may not react to caffeine the same as other people doesn't mean I am "addicted" or have a "dependance" on it. The fact that I rarely drink Pepsi anymore attests to that, thanks. Certain drugs just have little to no effect on me. Such as novicane (spelling?) I have no reaction to it when used, no numbness, etc. So to equate me and my thoughts on caffeine to a crack head is rather ignorant when you obviously don't know my genetic make up, my tolerance to stimuli, or any other factors that make me different than someone else.
Also, if caffeine was really so bad for you, it wouldn't be readily available to you in the form of liquids, over the counter pills, an active ingrediant in numerous medicines due to making the more effective and faster acting, etc etc. Granted, large amounts of anything are bad however. Oh, and I'd like to see a reference on that "caffeine calcifies the pituitary gland". I didn't see that anywhere I looked.

[jiritt0]

A 12 oz. Pepsi has 40mg of caffeine. Also, the simple fact that I may not react to caffeine the same as other people doesn't mean I am "addicted" or have a "dependance" on it.

search: pharmacodynamics. Read.

Certain drugs do ellicit different effects across users; but these drugs are generally more specific and used to treat various mental disorders/diseases.

Tolerance basically depicts how the drug is percieved cognitively and than controlled/experienced/felt physiologically.

Also, have you ever though of metabolic and/or cellular/pharmacodynamic tolerance? [let alone even understand the terms]

So to equate me and my thoughts on caffeine to a crack head is rather ignorant

hence the reason I began the thought with in theory. I also refernced cocaine use, not crack-cocaine. Assuming a direct correlation between the use of each is rather idoitic in itself.

Also, if caffeine was really so bad for you, it wouldn't be readily available to you in the form of liquids, over the counter pills, an active ingrediant in numerous medicines due to making the more effective and faster acting, etc etc.

They used to put psuedo-ephedrine in OTC meds until the meth lab eradiction act was passed. the govt doesnt really care about you or your health, remember that.

Granted, large amounts of anything are bad however. Oh, and I'd like to see a reference on that "caffeine calcifies the pituitary gland". I didn't see that anywhere I looked.

Chronic administration of caffeine develops tolerance. tolerance to caffeine means increased doses of administration. abusing caffeine potentially leads to a wide scope of health complications.

I believe caffeine is consistently reported as #1 or #2 in the list of most widely abused drugs.
Nictoine is prolly the opposite of whatever caffeine is. than alcohol.. ..

[Spartan]

"Because caffeine enhances performance in many individuals, it has been banned by the International Olympic Committee. But ironically, the level at which caffeine is banned far exceeds the amount needed to enhance performance. Higher, illegal levels are generally attained with caffeine supplements, since a 150-pound athlete would need to drink 3 to 4 large cups of coffee within an hour before activity to reach the upper acceptable limit. Just 1.5 to 3 milligrams of caffeine per pound of body weight (225 to 450 milligrams for a 150-pound man) is enough for an energy-enhancing effect. That's as little as one 10-ounce cup of coffee!"

"In the first study (4) of caffeine as an ergogenic aid, a single dose (5 mg/kg body weight) ingested 60 minutes before exercise increased time to fatigue by 20% during intense cycling (80% of VO2 max) (4). Other laboratory (5) and field (6) studies confirmed the benefits of caffeine for endurance performance. The postulated mechanism for the improved exercise capacity was a rise in circulating free-fatty-acid concentration, an increase in fatty acid oxidation, and a reduction in carbohydrate utilization during exercise."

"Habitual caffeine consumers experience less ergogenic effect than people who consume it rarely. For the optimal ergogenic benefit, the trick may be to use caffeine strategically at certain points to allow for harder training, and then discontinue it to avoid developing a tolerance."

"Caffeine affects each person's performance differently. Some athletes thrive on it; others prefer to abstain because it causes stomach upset, nervousness, or jitters. Clearly, if caffeine makes you queasy or lightheaded during exercise, don't use it!"

From The Physician and Sportsmedicine 1997 and 1998.

Yes, definately looks like 400mg of caffeine pre-workout is stupid. Considering the fact that I am almost 50 pounds heavier than their example really makes it look bad to option to take that extra tablet every other day pre-cardio. I'm 195lbs, you do the math on what that would equate to.
Yes, 90% of the world operates on caffeine in one form or another, but because you feel it's not useful in a higher dosage means little to me. The fact that I handle a drug like caffeine better than others is not much different than the way some people are affected by some supplements and not others.
So to think that I have some psycho-analytical dependance and metabolic/pharmacodynamic tolerance to it again is ignorant. You don't know me. You don't know my genetics, my make up, my diet, my exact cellular composition, nothing. So to make open ended rhetorical remarks makes little sense.

[babolat]

A 12 oz. Pepsi has 40mg of caffeine. Also, the simple fact that I may not react to caffeine the same as other people doesn't mean I am "addicted" or have a "dependance" on it. The fact that I rarely drink Pepsi anymore attests to that, thanks. Certain drugs just have little to no effect on me. Such as novicane (spelling?) I have no reaction to it when used, no numbness, etc. So to equate me and my thoughts on caffeine to a crack head is rather ignorant when you obviously don't know my genetic make up, my tolerance to stimuli, or any other factors that make me different than someone else.
Also, if caffeine was really so bad for you, it wouldn't be readily available to you in the form of liquids, over the counter pills, an active ingrediant in numerous medicines due to making the more effective and faster acting, etc etc. Granted, large amounts of anything are bad however. Oh, and I'd like to see a reference on that "caffeine calcifies the pituitary gland". I didn't see that anywhere I looked.

Woah man, I wouldnt call JD ignorant.

As for the calcification of the pituitary, I've verified it with atleast 3 college profs and a handful of HS bio/chem teachers.

My coach's mother is the head nurse at a major hopital around here, and I asked her, she verified. As for the studies, theres no way im going to re-research it to prove something to you.

Seriously, respect JD.

[babolat]

search: pharmacodynamics. Read.

Certain drugs do ellicit different effects across users; but these drugs are generally more specific and used to treat various mental disorders/diseases.

Tolerance basically depicts how the drug is percieved cognitively and than controlled/experienced/felt physiologically.

Also, have you ever though of metabolic and/or cellular/pharmacodynamic tolerance? [let alone even understand the terms]




hence the reason I began the thought with in theory. I also refernced cocaine use, not crack-cocaine. Assuming a direct correlation between the use of each is rather idoitic in itself.



They used to put psuedo-ephedrine in OTC meds until the meth lab eradiction act was passed. the govt doesnt really care about you or your health, remember that.



Chronic administration of caffeine develops tolerance. tolerance to caffeine means increased doses of administration. abusing caffeine potentially leads to a wide scope of health complications.

I believe caffeine is consistently reported as #1 or #2 in the list of most widely abused drugs.
Nictoine is prolly the opposite of whatever caffeine is. than alcohol.. ..

The last figure I heard was #1 caffeine, #2 alcohol.

caffeine=stim, alcohol=depressant (duh)


Anyway, I totally agree with you JD. You have it all together, you get my support.

[jiritt0]

"Because caffeine enhances performance in many individuals, it has been banned by the International Olympic Committee. But ironically, the level at which caffeine is banned far exceeds the amount needed to enhance performance. Higher, illegal levels are generally attained with caffeine supplements, since a 150-pound athlete would need to drink 3 to 4 large cups of coffee within an hour before activity to reach the upper acceptable limit. Just 1.5 to 3 milligrams of caffeine per pound of body weight (225 to 450 milligrams for a 150-pound man) is enough for an energy-enhancing effect. That's as little as one 10-ounce cup of coffee!"

"In the first study (4) of caffeine as an ergogenic aid, a single dose (5 mg/kg body weight) ingested 60 minutes before exercise increased time to fatigue by 20% during intense cycling (80% of VO2 max) (4). Other laboratory (5) and field (6) studies confirmed the benefits of caffeine for endurance performance. The postulated mechanism for the improved exercise capacity was a rise in circulating free-fatty-acid concentration, an increase in fatty acid oxidation, and a reduction in carbohydrate utilization during exercise."

"Habitual caffeine consumers experience less ergogenic effect than people who consume it rarely. For the optimal ergogenic benefit, the trick may be to use caffeine strategically at certain points to allow for harder training, and then discontinue it to avoid developing a tolerance."

"Caffeine affects each person's performance differently. Some athletes thrive on it; others prefer to abstain because it causes stomach upset, nervousness, or jitters. Clearly, if caffeine makes you queasy or lightheaded during exercise, don't use it!"

From The Physician and Sportsmedicine 1997 and 1998.

Yes, definately looks like 400mg of caffeine pre-workout is stupid. Considering the fact that I am almost 50 pounds heavier than their example really makes it look bad to option to take that extra tablet every other day pre-cardio. I'm 195lbs, you do the math on what that would equate to.
Yes, 90% of the world operates on caffeine in one form or another, but because you feel it's not useful in a higher dosage means little to me. The fact that I handle a drug like caffeine better than others is not much different than the way some people are affected by some supplements and not others.
So to think that I have some psycho-analytical dependance and metabolic/pharmacodynamic tolerance to it again is ignorant. You don't know me. You don't know my genetics, my make up, my diet, my exact cellular composition, nothing. So to make open ended rhetorical remarks makes little sense.

weather or not you handle the caffeine better than others doesnt mean it doesnt act the same on your body.

chronic consumption of excessive amounts of caffeine will lead to hypo-cardio-respitory health issues, most of which show no symptoms so you'll just die one day from heart attack, stroke, or hypertensive related issues.

if a coke head doesnt get high off 1 bump does that mean that 1 bump doesnt act the same in his body as another in persons? no, it acts exactly the same, but the person has a tolerance built weather it be behvioral, cellular, or pharmacodynamic.


your looking at caffeine as an ergogenic aid, I'm looking at caffeine as a drug of abuse and its effects on general health. sure its a great ergogenic aid, but for general health I don't believe the pros out power the cons.

genetics, "make up", diet, cellular compisition, etc mean little in terms of pharmacology. the most they account for generally is side effects of the drug.

also, I'm 215lb roughly and 200mg caffeine kicks my ass and gives me a rush forever (currently). over the summer I did the E/C stack of 25mg/200mg 3x a day -- so don't tell me about a "tolerance" you have built through years of drinking soda...

[pu12en12g]

the govt doesnt really care about you or your health, remember that.

^^^^

Agreed

if 200 mg caffeine isnt enough your abusing it

Let's just try to keep the back-and-forth insults to a low roar (if possible). Thinking you are 100% correct all the time can be a dangerous path.

[Spartan]

weather or not you handle the caffeine better than others doesnt mean it doesnt act the same on your body.

chronic consumption of excessive amounts of caffeine will lead to hypo-cardio-respitory health issues, most of which show no symptoms so you'll just die one day from heart attack, stroke, or hypertensive related issues.

if a coke head doesnt get high off 1 bump does that mean that 1 bump doesnt act the same in his body as another in persons? no, it acts exactly the same, but the person has a tolerance built weather it be behvioral, cellular, or pharmacodynamic.


your looking at caffeine as an ergogenic aid, I'm looking at caffeine as a drug of abuse and its effects on general health. sure its a great ergogenic aid, but for general health I don't believe the pros out power the cons.

genetics, "make up", diet, cellular compisition, etc mean little in terms of pharmacology. the most they account for generally is side effects of the drug.

also, I'm 215lb roughly and 200mg caffeine kicks my ass and gives me a rush forever (currently). over the summer I did the E/C stack of 25mg/200mg 3x a day -- so don't tell me about a "tolerance" you have built through years of drinking soda...

Hence, my question was based as such with caffeine being used as an ergogenic, not sitting there popping tablets for the hell of it. And who said I was consuming caffeine in a "chronic" manner when the question was based on 200 or 400 mg? You come out with "that's stupid". Real good answer. Opinions ftw? Oh, and you're the one stating about tolerance and whatnot. So again, just because 200mg caffeine "kicks your ass" doesn't mean it would mine. So save your higher than all "caffeine is the devil in a drug" speech. I asked a simple question, you gave an ass of an answer. Good game. Done.

[Sethva]

*waiting on the youtube.com fight video*

[Spartan]

*waiting on the youtube.com fight video*

lol, jerk.

Good stuff.

[jiritt0]

Hence, my question was based as such with caffeine being used as an ergogenic, not sitting there popping tablets for the hell of it. And who said I was consuming caffeine in a "chronic" manner when the question was based on 200 or 400 mg? You come out with "that's stupid". Real good answer. Opinions ftw? Oh, and you're the one stating about tolerance and whatnot. So again, just because 200mg caffeine "kicks your ass" doesn't mean it would mine. So save your higher than all "caffeine is the devil in a drug" speech. I asked a simple question, you gave an ass of an answer. Good game. Done.

Whatever hombre, enjoy your caffeine use. its great for what it does ergogenicly. I was just trying to possibly alert you to the health consequences of stimulant use. You clearly don't desire to know the full scope of what caffeine does once it is ingested.

& to assume a 200mg dose does nothing because you don't notice the stimulant rush, euphoria, or any noticable effects doesn't mean it is not acting in your body. or better yet, on your body

Caffeine isn't the devil. I know this. nicotine and alcohol are the devils. caffeine is just the most widely abused drug, as well as possibly the least understood drug in terms of health consequences and such. People consume caffeine to all ends thinking it has no negatives, or the positives outweigh them.

think of this; caffeine is the most widely abused drug. excessive stimulant use leads to hyper tension , increase blood pressure, heart rates etc.

the leading cause of death in america is cardiovascular (heart) disease (I believe) followed by cancer?


Anyway, you clearly don't understand psychopharmacodynamics and tolerance. of course I don't really either! besides the fact I'm enrolled in the class now [pharmacology], and may study it in graduate school [clinical pharmacology @ the univ. of pitt].. .


....but i am just an ignorant idiot

[pu12en12g]

Group hug ?

Can we all agree to disagree or should we settle this in the street....

[pu12en12g]

Caffeine isn't the devil. I know this. nicotine and alcohol are the devils.

My worthless opinion, but I tend to agree. Nicotine, ignorance, and (ESPECIALLY) alcohol are the fuels that are running this country right into the ground.

[Controlled Labs]

My worthless opinion, but I tend to agree. Nicotine, ignorance, and (ESPECIALLY) alcohol are the fuels that are running this country right into the ground.

those and van wilder's sequel

[pu12en12g]

My worthless opinion, but I tend to agree. Nicotine, ignorance, and (ESPECIALLY) alcohol are the fuels that are running this country right into the ground.

Actually not the nicotine itself, but the low-tech delivery system we call Ciggs...