Announcement

**icetrauma** · 05-27-2008, 03:52 PM

It is a prop blend so the exact amount will not be given. I am assuming 250 mg per serving. The Monster drinks have 240 mg per can (120mg per serving and 2 serv. per can). As far as the DOMS go get ya some Golden FinisH. I used a tub and had zero DOMS while on it. I am assuming the 1/2 WF means 1 scoop. If that is the case cut the during workout scoop out and just use the PW. You will be surprised at the results.

**strester** · 05-27-2008, 06:38 PM

Purple Wraath is not a post-workout supplement ... it is intended to be used pre/during workouts ... try removing the PW from your post-workout supplementation and see what happens ... if that doesn't work, then I would try lowering the dosage of the WF

I workout around 6pm now and take 1 scoop of PW mixed with 2 scoops of BCAAs for my intra-workout drink ... this is in addition to other supplements taken pre-workout for energy and focus and have had no issues getting to bed for a good night's rest ... I'm 31y/o, 5'11, 205, and lift fairly similar to you (max-ot: big weight, good form, and not killing myself

).... and like icetrauma said, the WF contains a prop blend so there's a slim chance one of the reps will state the amount in it

**JohnnyLongtorso** · 05-27-2008, 07:55 PM

Thanks guys. Gonna try switching things up a bit and cutting the dose of WF to a single scoop pre-workout with the Green Mag. If one scoop kicks me into gear it makes WF even more of a bargain.

I'll use the PW "during" and just have some BCAAs with my PWO-shake.

I will have to look into the Golden FinisH. I'm not going to cut the intensity of my lifting sessions....

Man - my appetite was in overdrive today. Hopefully my run of CL product is going to see me add a bit of mass. A note on my weight - I started at a flabby 235, trimmed down to just under 200, and have started to eat for mass again. Up about 6# this month....

One last comment - I really like the taste of the CL products. Not too damn sweet.

lol - I crashed on the couch tonight!

**Controlled Labs** · 05-27-2008, 08:53 PM

roughly two cups of coffee on the caffeine content.

start low on the white flood, it does have other stimulants in it, not just caffeine.

start with a scoop (half serving) with a whole food carb like rice cake or granola bar

golden finish would be great for postworkout

**rich55** · 05-27-2008, 10:05 PM

Yeah, you will be most notably affected by stimulants such as White Flood upon first taking them, so tapering up is a good idea.

Golden FinisH is an excellent postworkout product. However, DOMS should be expected, particularly if you did any new movements. Comes with the territory, so embrace it!

**Dracoy** · 05-28-2008, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by JohnnyLongtorso

Me: 44 y.o., been lifting about a year with regularity. Decent diet, plenty of water. Don't drink/smoke. 6'3", ~205#, maybe 18%BF
I am no stranger to caffeine (this will matter in a moment)

To date have been using other similar supps (NO, creatine ee, beta alinine (loading phase already past), protein, BCAA, good multi). Universal Torrent had been my PWO of choice and loved it (no DOMS at all with that stuff, even at my age) My plan was to start fresh with CL products and see what they did for me.

After a couple weeks free of supplements I started my GM/WF/PW stack yesterday, using as follows:
Pre:
GM
1/2 WF
During:
1/2 WF
1/2 PW
Post:
1/2 PW & protein/BCAA drink

I started this at about 4:00 in the afternoon.....

I had an AWESOME workout.

It was a "big lift" day for me -
bench
seated row
squat
sumo deadlift
hammer curls
calf raises

I'm not a "power lifter" by any means - I work out alone in my basement, so I tend to stress perfect form, negative reps, etc - things I can do with reasonably heavy weights and still reduce the risk of killing myself while alone.

ALL my lifts went up by 15-20%. After my workout I debated on a post because of my results - I was amazed, but attributed it to the fact that I was coming off a relaxing 3 day weekend and was was super-hyped when lifting.

But I noticed as I worked that pretty much after every set I got a super headrush. I further noted my heart was working pretty hard post-set, but it settled pretty quickly. I knew I was working with some real intensity, so I just assumed it was a bit of an adrenaline surge - but I noticed that I didn't get the back pumps I typically experienced with adrenaline, so I figured it was the CL supps doing their thing....

I didn't really feel what I'd consider "jittery" over the course of the night. Then I tried to go to sleep (even taking my usual ZMA and Venom Lean Dreams tabs). About 4:00 am, after tossing around for, oh, 5.5 hours, I finally fell into a fitful "nap" for maybe 2.5 hours. Today I feel like total crap - it's quite obvious I got not REM sleep at all.

I see that the question has been asked, but never answered - case in point here. How much caffeine is in White Flood? Why is it such a secret? My guess being: it's more than typically (legally) allowed in a beverage (which I think is 75mg/serving).

Or is there some other stimulant factor at play here?

I am a long-time coffee drinker. Oddly enough one of the cravings I've lost over the course of developing good diet and exercise habits is coffee - but I still have a cup or two now and again, so it's not like caffeine is "net new" to my system. Further, I've also played on and off with fat burners containing various amounts of caffeine, and I am well aware of what the jitters are like.

I'd love another workout like I had yesterday - but there's no friggin' way I can follow it with another night of no rest like I had last night. Do I need to ditch the WF altogether, or just cut my dose???

On another note - I am also missing the Universal Torrent - DOMS set in just after lunch

Not too bad given the weights I was moving, but I will likely have to find a replacement for (or just order more) Torrent....

TIA
Don

Pre:
GM
1/4 PW
During:
1 SCOOP WF
3/4 PW
Post:
protein/BCAA drink

Try this. Go easy on the WF, it is powerful stuff. I think if you take it intra-workout it'll slowly release it into your body and help you IMO Try that.

**JohnnyLongtorso** · 05-29-2008, 07:16 AM

Update: Second Workout, changed my stack up....

Well, yesterday was another workout day and based on earlier comments I did change things up a bit:
Pre:
GMag, WF (1 scoop)
~1/2 cup cut oats
During:
PW
~2l of water

I whipped up the Green Mag and WF with the oats in my uber-blender, did a surprisingly good job. I like the taste of oats so it was not at all unpleasant.

Workout:
incline db press
upright db rows
front squats
good mornings
barbell curls
weighted dips

Focus was good, unfortunately I focused more on a work issue than the workout. Energy was good - not the crazy pumped up headrushes of Monday tho (which is likely a good thing).

Still having amazingly quick recovery times between sets - found I had to force myself to rest a couple times.

While my sleep was a little better it was still clearly disrupted. Again, it's not a caffeine-jittery kinda restlessness, it's more a "psycho-active" restlessness, kinda hard to describe.....

I'm going to stick with this for Friday as well and see how I do. If I'm not growing accustomed to the affect I'm going to take the WF about an hour earlier and see if that helps.

**icetrauma** · 05-29-2008, 08:04 AM

Workout looks good. Sounds like you may of had a little bit of extra cerebral activity going in and out of the gym. I to have that prob. every now and then but once I find time to reflect on what is going on the mind usually gears down. I hope things clear up for ya soon. Happy lifting.

**Doully** · 05-30-2008, 06:37 AM

What time do you hit the gym?

I don't take WF, GM, or PW (yet... its coming

) and I've been training late the last couple of days, starting around 8-8:30 pm, and I can't get to sleep until around 12 am because my brain is going at 100m/h. It takes me ages to switch off!

Can't wait to finish this bottle of Scorch in 4 days so I can start taking my REDuction and get some awesome sleep going!

**JohnnyLongtorso** · 05-30-2008, 03:32 PM

I try to workout consistently at about 5:00 - this forces me to stop working. I am a home employee (and traveling implementation engineer) and many times it is hard to draw a distinction between my "real" life and my work life.

I just had my GM/WF/Oats a few minutes ago - yum. I seriously question the fact that this tastes good to me

Todays workout is my "light weight/high rep" day:
Decline BB Bench Press
Chin-ups
Step-Ups (amazingly dorky exercise that just kills me

)
Deadlifts
Seated Calf Raises
BB Lying Tricep Extensions (I do them as "skull crushers")

I have not noted that I warm up with light cardio and some basic stretching. I also stretch when done. Off days are "long cardio" days - yesterday being done behind a lawn mower instead of on a treadmill - where the occasional bees nest provides opportunity for some instantaneous High Intensity Cardio.

I have to wonder if my sleep issues are not, in part, related to my stress level. I have a lot going on my personal/work life and my mind seems to be churning in overdrive a lot of the time. Even last nights sleep was not great, but the difference is: on the "non-WF" days I fall asleep and stay asleep to a point (but once awake I can't get back to sleep), but the WF days are when I have a hard time falling asleep at all, and then deep asleep after that.

Still, I'm going to continue with the course that I am on - 2 days is hardly the basis for definitive statements at this point. I feel pretty good other than being tired. I know it's not conducive to great growth, but at the same time I can't let it be yet another thing I stress over! If things don't change after next week (couple big projects coming to a close and, hopefully, some mental breathing room) I will re-evaluate my use of WF at all. As a "wired guy" it may just not be for me.....

**JohnnyLongtorso** · 05-31-2008, 06:16 PM

All in all I had a decent workout yesterday. My ass was decidedly dragging from the week, and it showed in some of my last sets. Still, I was moving some additional weight and had good focus.

I mixed my PW with ~2l water yesterday and seemed to be experiencing a little bloat. Typically I have no issue consuming huge quantities of water when I work out, but yesterday I had a hard time downing all the PW. Will have to see if that's a trend for me as well.....

I slept.... so-so. Once again I fell asleep quickly, and did sleep pretty deeply, but was up just after 4:00. But I do believe that this is as much due to stress than anything else because my mind immediately kicks into overdrive thinking about work, bills, chores around the house, etc.

But I think this will work for me. After another week I'll try to eek the WF dosage up a bit again and see where it goes....

Oh, and thanks to all that commented....

**icetrauma** · 06-01-2008, 05:53 AM

Keep us updated. And

**JohnnyLongtorso** · 06-02-2008, 07:54 PM

Did my Monday thang again. Fairly status quo - added some weight to my sumo deadlift, got a few more squats in - but hammer curls were a biotch for some reason.

I took the WF 1.5 hours before working out. I'm thinking that's too far out as I was feeling a bit tired when I finally got to calves.....

Still getting bloated from the PW. Typically I can drink all the water I can get - but about 2/3 of the way through my PW (in 1.5l water) I feel like I can't drink any more and burp a lot - and the worst thing is I'm thirsty as hell.

I'm not getting the "pumps" I was on my prior pre-workout drink - is this because of the amount of time before lifting I'm taking it? Or is WF/GMag kinda "pump free"? I don't know that it really matters, but then I am winding down a bit faster than I'd like.....

I decided to wear my HR monitor - and as I feared, I am fairly jacked - or so I thought at first......

Note the average HR, near 130.

So this had be a bit concerned and I decided to compare it to a similar workout I had in January.

And the funny this in back then my average was 142 and my peak was 157! Big difference in the numbers, but the real interesting part is the recovery - nearly none back in January (hence the high average no doubt), but now I drop from my peaks to my average really quickly. I think much of this has to do with increased respiratory capacity - some days I feel like I can inhale/exhale about 5 cubic feet of air per breath.

Seems like this weightlifting stuff might be good for me

I feel much more "regular" right now, so I'm hoping for a decent night's sleep. Flying to Atlanta for a bit of a Dog-n-Pony show tomorrow, hopefully the looming task won't affect my rest....

All in all, a damn good day.

**icetrauma** · 06-03-2008, 10:20 AM

That is awesome to hear. Glad to see the charts!!!! Strong work keep it up.

Announcement

Day one on "stack" question and observations

Day one on "stack" question and observations

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment