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Thread: A must read!!!

  1. #1
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    Default A must read!!!

    Sorry about the errors in advance it is just how it copied, but it is a very very good read



    Taken from:
    http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/train...134236174.html

    Man, you guys should see the stir this caused at anabolicminds.

    I'm guessing you guys take it a bit better...

    What I believe about training:

    Virtually everything you�ve ever read from a bodybuilding magazine is heresy and should be regarded as not worth the paper it was printed on. The programs written by the so called �superstars� of the bodybuilding world were actually ghost written by some guy in a cubicle who doesn�t know a thing about proper training, programming, exercise phys, or periodization. If, by chance the program was actually written by the �superstar� you can rest easy as long as you are one of the most genetically gifted people in history AND you are on such a ridiculous amount of drugs that you have to tan to hide the yellowing of your skin due to liver failure.

    The fact is that big, strong guys are a dime a dozen, and many of them get that way in spite of their training knowledge than because of it.

    I know what I�m talking about in the world of training not because I�m the biggest or the strongest (although, at 270lbs and an 800 squat, 600 bench, and 700 deadlift I can hold my own), and not because I know the most about exercise phys (though I can hold my own there too), but because I have trained with and become friends with best. I have trained at Westside Barbell Club, with the Metal Militia, talk on a continual basis with the best strength coaches in the nation and world-wide, and the training methods I prescribe have been tested in the gym on literally hundreds and hundreds of regular, everyday athletes and shown to work. Period.

    So here�s what I can stand before you today and say with great conviction what I know to be true about training:

    1) I believe in general that the majority of people don�t work hard enough. If there�s one thing we can learn from the old Eastern Bloc countries, it�s that they worked harder than us, and that primarily, is why they always beat us in the Olympics. Work hard in the gym (even if your program sucks) and you will be rewarded.

    2) I also believe that most people don�t put near enough emphasis on lower body and core work. The key to getting big is full squats and deadlifts. If you are looking at your routine and you see that you are training upper body 3 or 4 days per week and lower body once, you have a serious problem. The majority of athletes should live and die in the squat rack.

    3) And for that matter, EVERYONE�S program should be centered around these exercises: Full Squat, Deadlifts (or cleans or both), heavy barbell rows, bench press, and Standing Barbell Military/Push Presses. Add pull ups, barbell curls, dips, heavy abdominal work, and some core work (back extensions, reverse hypers, or glute hams) and that should make up 95-100% of the total number of exercises you do. The most effective training is simple and hard.

    4) Training a bodypart once per week (and one bodypart per day) is one of the worst ways to train. It will create a rut in your training that you can�t dig out of.

    Training a bodypart twice per week has always been shown to be superior to once per week training of a muscle. The problem is with the influx of "Weider Principles" and other bodybuilding trash that's posted in the magazines, the masses have been stuck in the one-bodypart-per-day-per-week rut for years.

    No strength athletes train a bodypart once per week. Most olympic lifters, powerlifters, and strongman train their backs at least four times per week, and last time I checked, they weren't lacking in back width.

    The simple fact is that training using an upper/lower split or a push/pull split or 3 full body days will provide double or triple the training stimulus than training a muscle once per week and thus, if done correctly will lead to much, much greater growth and strength gains.


    5) Training to near muscular failure has shown to induce identical hypertrophy gains than training to all out muscular failure. The reason you guys can�t train a muscle more than once per week is because you are destroying it when you do train it. Learn to hit or miss that last rep and then call it done. Don�t do ridiculous amounts of forced reps, negatives, etc. until you literally can�t move the muscle. Take it to near failure and then your muscles will recover enough so that you can train them again in 3-4 days.

    Understand that there is a huge difference in training to near failure and not training hard. I would never advocate to not train hard. Actually, quite the opposite � try to squat for 5 sets of 5 reps using only 10lbs less than your five rep max. That�s absolutely brutal. But when you get done, don�t go to the leg press machine and keep pounding out sets and stripping off weight until you literal can�t do a single leg press with only the sled. That�s absurd, and you can�t recover from it in 3 days.

    6) Squat at least below parallel every time. Are you kidding me? I can�t believe some people are still quarter squatting and saying that riding a squat all the way to the ground is bad for your knees. Learn the facts. Stopping at or above parallel puts much more strain on your knees than going ass to grass. Plus going all the way down in an Olympic style back squat will put more mass on you than any other exercise. Period.

    7) Isolation exercises are absolute crap. 90% of your routine should be made up of full squats, deadlifts or cleans, bench press, standing overhead press, heavy barbell rows, pull-ups, dips, and core work (abs, glute ham raises, back extensions, reverse hypers). Isolation exercises and machines are the worst thing that ever happened to the weight training world.

    8) Quit using pyramid rep schemes like 10,8,6,4,2 � Instead, your time would be better served doing boring (but effective) gut busting sets of 5x5 or 4x8-10 using the SAME WEIGHT for each set. They WILL produce better results than the pyramid scheme. BTW, check your ego at the door when you do these.

    9) I�ll quote my good friend, Glenn Pendlay (the best S&C coach in the nation) for the next one:

    "Most athletes do too many exercises. Many times they look over other peoples programs like they are at a buffet. They pick a little of this and a little of that from a variety of programs, and end up with something useless. People think you have to train each muscle with a different specific exercise. Many guys in college athletics would do better if they would just randomly slash off half of what they are doing, and then work twice as hard on the half that is left."

    10) Another of my favorites from Glenn:

    "im so sick and tired of hearing people who just started training who say they cant gain weight. jeez ive heard this crap so often. every day it seems i have some stupid kid ask me about how to gain weight... in resturants, at the grocery store, yo uname it. for some reason there seems to be a sign on my back or something. usually i know its worthless to talk to them, sometimes i actually waste my time. talked to a kid at the golden corral a couple of days ago. took almost an hour when i should have been enjoying my all you can eat steak night... 3 days later i see him in the gym when i just happened to go in to talk to a friend who i knew was there... kid was there doing preacher curls. said hi to me, then said well i talked to my friend about what you said and he said he tried it once and overtrained so i decided to do this thing i read about... on the other hand about 6 months ago i talked to this 6' tall, 150lb kid who wanted to know about getting stronger. kid had done well in judo, won some titles, also after that had done cycling, turned pro then quit a year later, quite a good road racer. he actually did what i told him i guess, about 3 months after i saw him the first time i saw hiim again, he weighed about 185... he wanted to try olympic weightlifting so i let him train with the team i coach. now hes weighing 204 and clean and jerking about 300lbs, 54lbs gained in 6 months. no drugs. olympic squat from 175lbs to 385lbs, front squat from 150lbs to 330lbs. hell be a good lifter, has a good work ethic. needs to be 240 and fairly lean, will compete eventually in the 231 pound class. will take about another 12-15 months i suppose. why is a kid like this the exception and not the rule? why will kids do the same old thing for years in the abscense of results, and not try anything new? what the hell is wrong with people. there is a gym in town, i know the owner so i go and talk to him sometimes, there are all these kids in there, skinny little fucks, doing curls. they never progress, you see the same faces one year to the next, same bodies too."

    11) Ultra slow reps or TUT is, for the most part completely worthless. Will it work? Yes. But the total amount of work that one can complete is much lower when utilizing slow reps. Just go natural. Don�t try to be super fast, and bouncy, and don�t try to go ultra slow. Just do it naturally and controlled.

    12) �The burn�, �the pump� and �the feel� have nothing to do with the effectiveness of an exercise. Yes, even I have been caught on upper body days looking at myself in the mirror when I�m all blown up, but that has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the last exercise. You do hammer strength bench presses and flyes for sets of 20 and I�ll do heavy barbell bench presses and deep dips. One of us will �feel the pump� more and the other one will grow.

    13) Likewise, delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) also gives no clue as to the effectiveness of a workout. It just means A) you have a ton of microtrauma in a muscle or B) a lot of lactic acid/ waste products. Congratulations.

    14) �Core stability training� is not done on a swiss ball or a stability board. It�s done by pulling heavy deadlifts, standing overhead presses, full squats, heavy barbell rows, heavy farmer�s walks, Atlas stones, tire flipping, reverse hypers, heavy back extensions, glute ham raises, and heavy abdominal work.

    15) A good gym has nothing to do with how nice the machines are or if they have a pool or tanning beds or even if it�s air conditioned. A good gym smells like a mix of body odor and liniment and supplies their members with a big box of chalk.

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    good post, sadly most will overlook it in fear of the world which lies north of vag

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    Great read. Sums up alot of what dave tate, joe defranco, simmons, and other bright minds believe in. Hopefully it will catch on.
    "Greater love hath no man, than to lay down his life for a friend" John 15:13
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    When any of my buddies want to start training seriously, and ask me for advice, I make them read this.

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    Wow!!! I have been doing once per week bodypart training for years. I have gained some mass but after 15 years of working out i feel i should look alot bigger. What do you guys think about a good 5 x 5 program like Bill Starr's? It is mostly compound exercises that have you working out the same bodypart 1-2 times a week?

    Will this build alot of mass and strength or mostly just strength? Is it ok to squat heavy 3 times a week for 5 x 5's?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzepp View Post
    Wow!!! I have been doing once per week bodypart training for years. I have gained some mass but after 15 years of working out i feel i should look alot bigger. What do you guys think about a good 5 x 5 program like Bill Starr's? It is mostly compound exercises that have you working out the same bodypart 1-2 times a week?

    Will this build alot of mass and strength or mostly just strength? Is it ok to squat heavy 3 times a week for 5 x 5's?
    Doing squats 3x per week puts alot of stress on your CNS. I never heard of an athlete( a smart one) doing that many.
    "Greater love hath no man, than to lay down his life for a friend" John 15:13
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    read Mel Siff & Verkoshanksy's Supertraining and learn how to build a program and train yourself for positive progressions. your last 15 years have been a waste because they have been a waste.

    any cookie cutter program = weak, it can't account for your sticking points/weaknesses and create a program designed to bring up these aspects to further progress your overall big important movements -- its merely something some meathead wrote down and published to make $ based on the fact it worked for them and a select population of people they've come in contact with.

    Nothing works for everyone, though the same broad concepts apply across the spectrum.
    Last edited by jiritt0; 04-06-2010 at 06:55 AM.

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    Well said jd, i agree fully.
    Never follow a routine you've seen online, on a forum, etc.
    Do the research, assess yourself, find your weak and strong points...and hit em!

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    I have always followed a once per week bodypart training program as they say your muscles need 5-7 days rest between bodyparts if you are a natural trainer. Like i said, i have gained mass but it seemed to come very very slow even though i was on a high calorie diet.

    I have never tried training bodyparts a couple times a week. I have heard alot of people say that the 5 x 5 program is good for strength and mass. I want to try it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzepp View Post
    I have never tried training bodyparts a couple times a week. I have heard alot of people say that the 5 x 5 program is good for strength and mass. I want to try it out.
    see attachment for basic information on training protocols.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Saved. Thanks for posting that

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    Well i have read that you can train for strength and keep your calories at your maintenance level and gain strength. You can also train for strength and if you up the calories about your maintenance level you will gain alot of size as well as strength.

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    did you read that in some kind of purtty muscle & fiction mag? lol


    if your not in a caloric surplus, gaining anything will be rather difficult. much like a caloric deficiet is required to lose anything.. if nutrition is paid attention too, than one can maximize there gains to be lean and loses to be bodyfat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by breathemetal View Post
    4) Training a bodypart once per week (and one bodypart per day) is one of the worst ways to train. It will create a rut in your training that you can�t dig out of.

    Training a bodypart twice per week has always been shown to be superior to once per week training of a muscle. The problem is with the influx of "Weider Principles" and other bodybuilding trash that's posted in the magazines, the masses have been stuck in the one-bodypart-per-day-per-week rut for years.

    No strength athletes train a bodypart once per week. Most olympic lifters, powerlifters, and strongman train their backs at least four times per week, and last time I checked, they weren't lacking in back width.

    The simple fact is that training using an upper/lower split or a push/pull split or 3 full body days will provide double or triple the training stimulus than training a muscle once per week and thus, if done correctly will lead to much, much greater growth and strength gains.
    Greg Valentino (of all people) had a rant about the same thing in his column in MD a month or two back.
    Something along the lines that in the 70's hitting each bodypart 3x per week was the norm. In the 80's, twice per week... and it was in the 90's the once per week training for each bodypart became the norm. And post competition, those who trained with more frequency have also managed to stay in better shape.
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    I tried a full body routine when i first started working out. Today, though i would find it very boring. I like variety in my workouts, not doing the same exercies for each bodypart 3 times a week. I keep hearing this is the best way to train for muscular size from many articles.

    Everybody has a different opinion on what works best for size and strength. Like i said i have done a once per week bodypart training resting 5-7 days between bodyparts for years. I have gotten very slow results from this method but other people have gotten great results. I have tried heavy weight, low reps....higher reps in the 8-12 rep range. No training program i have used has really worked faster than any other one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzepp View Post
    Everybody has a different opinion on what works best for size and strength.

    science > opinions


    it is also critical to understand the difference between size, strength, and power. though all are complexly interrelated, all are uniquely individual skill sets.

    Cross sectional area (size) relates directly to strength potential, and strength potential relates directly to the possible rate of force development (power).. in my opinion failing to train any one biomotor ability decreaes ones ability to maximize the true physical potential even if they desire to focus primarily on enhancing one ability more than others.


    Though I am young in my training and readings, I believe the russian conjugate sequence system to be far superior to any other form of periodization/program design. This is the basis of westside barbells training and many elite athletic programs. It also incorporates multilateral training into the weekly design through the incorporation of dynamic, maximal, and reptition effort sessions.



    A large downfall in the average persons training is thatr there is simply no periodization or logical approach to monitoring fatigue and ensureing the theory of progressive overload is adhered too. most people walk into the gym, throw there ipod on, and wing it, primarily using the bench press, shrug, and bicep curl as a gauge of fitness. this is what I call douchebag training.
    Last edited by jiritt0; 04-09-2010 at 03:12 PM.

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    LOL @ douchebag training. I like that. VERY well said JD!

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    WOW my mind now = blown.... I too fall in the training muscle once per week category. Thank you for putting that up.

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    Can someone explain in more detail the reasoning behind #8? I have always and still to this day do a pyramid scheme for all exercises for each bodypart in my workout. I usually do an 8, 6, 4, 2 or 10, 8, 6, 4 rep range depending on the exercise and increasing the weight each set. After reading this article i am thinking of switching to a 6-8 rep scheme for chest, back, shoulders and an 8-10 rep scheme for biceps, triceps, legs, hamstrings and keeping the weight the same for all sets. Then after a 6 weeks or so switching to a 4-6 rep scheme for chest, back, shoulders and a 6-8 rep scheme for biceps, triceps, legs, hamstrings. Will this deliver better results than the pyramid scheme that i have been using and why?

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    Old(ish) thread, but deserves a bump, thanks for putting it up.

    It is things I've come across in various places put this puts it together rather nicely. Will be linking many-a-lifter here. Also strikes me as really quite similar to Kane's workout principles, with a few modifications.
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