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high Gi carbs vs. bcaa/eaa

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  • high Gi carbs vs. bcaa/eaa

    Where does everyone fall on this ?

    high gi carbs (dex/malto) vs bcaa/eaa supplementation (IE xtend, PW, and the like)

    there are compelling arguments for both sides, im just curious as to what the fellow board members believe


    For the record, im an advocate on both, where as i think high GI is more effective for bulking,and bcaa/eaa's are better for cutting

  • #2
    IME, I have neglected carbohydrates in the past year I’ve been BB’ing. They’re essential for growth and energy. Now that I know that I wish that I had trained with a more optimal diet in mind.

    Supplementing EAAs and BCAAs (not counting whey protein which has a really decent AA profile) seems a little bit fancy, but I like it. I’m a PW fiend lol. There’s a buffer zone in which you will not be leeching AAs from your muscles and becoming catabolic. This is what I like.

    But CHO seems pretty damn important as well. As far as high-glycemic CHO are concerned, maybe they are not a necessity. But post work out CHO has proved to be very important and I don’t think it should be neglected. It’s very efficient and also economic to take dex, malto or palatinose (getting interested in this) post workout. Gets your glycogen stores back up without getting stored into fat as easily as they would be if you just sat on your ass and drank pop all day.

    I was just reading halleluyah’s article on amino acids and all that jazz (http://www.strengthandscience.com/ju...le7_july.htm)…. My next stack’s going to have PW of course, but with 5g of bulk leucine sipped pre and during, and I’ll be adding 10g to my post workout shakes. I’ve also become a bit smarter with carbs so I’ll keep things at around 30g of dex taken post so I don’t bloat, but I’m going to be looking into other options like palatinose. I just started checking this out and it looks pretty promising.

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    • #3
      I have, as of late, become more of an advocate of just EAA's post workout over high GI carbs or even both. It's difficult to control carb storage as fat with high doses of any kind of carb at one time. I'm almost starting to think you don't need much carbs at all... just from your veggies and milk. Is there actually any scientific proof that you grow better when you take in food at a ratio of moderate carbs and protein (say 40% or so of each) and about 20% fat as compared to high protein, low carb, moderate fat? (60%, 10%, 30%)? No one was eating lots of carbs until a couple hundred years ago, along with that came obese people. I'm on the verge of being convinced a high amount of carbs make you fat(er) and don't do much, if anything, for muscle growth. Besides... muscle is made of protein, so protein is what it going to make it grow. Carbs have nothing to do with that. You body will burn up the lowest amount of aminos it needs for energy, put most of the rest to repairing damaged muscle and what not, and store what little is left as fat. Carbs just get used for energy or stored as fat, as far as I know.
      So a good question would be... are carbs even at all necessary in human diet?

      I kind of went on a rant.
      Last edited by Mephistophel; 08-23-2006, 07:03 PM.

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      • #4
        i think you bring up a very valid point meph

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        • #5
          Originally posted by jaymdubbs
          i think you bring up a very valid point meph
          Oh, really? Well, good. I was thinking it might have been so against the grain, if you know what I mean, that it would just get completely dismissed.

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          • #6
            Some food for thought (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract)

            The intake of dietary carbohydrates mainly has the effect of inhibiting fat oxidation while glucose oxidation is increased. Dietary carbohydrates are involved in the control of energy balance because the regulation of food intake depends, in part, on the carbohydrate need of the individual. Because there is an obligatory requirement for glucose in several organs such as the brain, a spontaneous increase in food intake is seen when the diet has a low-carbohydrate, high-fat content. Therefore, the present nutritional advice of increasing the proportion of carbohydrate energy while decreasing that of fat in the everyday diet has strong scientific support in terms of the regulation of the energy balance.

            SCT
            Back to the basics!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by stonecoldtruth
              Some food for thought (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract)

              The intake of dietary carbohydrates mainly has the effect of inhibiting fat oxidation while glucose oxidation is increased. Dietary carbohydrates are involved in the control of energy balance because the regulation of food intake depends, in part, on the carbohydrate need of the individual. Because there is an obligatory requirement for glucose in several organs such as the brain, a spontaneous increase in food intake is seen when the diet has a low-carbohydrate, high-fat content. Therefore, the present nutritional advice of increasing the proportion of carbohydrate energy while decreasing that of fat in the everyday diet has strong scientific support in terms of the regulation of the energy balance.

              SCT
              Using this theory what to people think about this diet: you dont have fats and carbs in the same meal, example..
              meal one:High Protein High Carb
              meal two: high Protein , fat
              Meal THree: pre-workout- high carb, protein
              meal four: hgh carb, high protein
              meal five: fat, high protein
              meal six: High Protein, Fat

              I personally believe that the combination of carbs/fat ratio in diets that lead to fat gains.
              Genetics

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              • #8
                i dont see a problem with that diet, heres how mine breaks down


                meal 1 protein, fat, carb
                meal 2 protein
                meal 3 protein, fat
                meal 4 protein, carb (low fat)
                post workout protein low carb(past 2 weeks using small amount of dex, im experimenting)

                meal 5 protein, fat (sometimes a carb, but not exceeding 30 grams)
                meal 6 protein

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                • #9
                  i love dextrose during workout (high fructose corn syrup as well )

                  i actually notice more energy from it. i also use bcaas and eaas during workout

                  other than that i dont like to worry too much about supplementing carbs, but i try to not use any immediately post workout (other than sugar from milk)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NumberTwentyTwo
                    i love dextrose during workout (high fructose corn syrup as well )

                    i actually notice more energy from it. i also use bcaas and eaas during workout

                    other than that i dont like to worry too much about supplementing carbs, but i try to not use any immediately post workout (other than sugar from milk)

                    Why would you avoid immediate post workout carbs? I’m not sure if I follow..

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by browndustin
                      Why would you avoid immediate post workout carbs? I’m not sure if I follow..
                      i do not reccomend it for everyone

                      but when i ad dextrose to my p/w shake it seems to turn straight into adipose tissue

                      i have no proof that it does for me, but i refer straight protein immediately p/w, followed by a huge meal and hour later

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NumberTwentyTwo
                        i do not reccomend it for everyone

                        but when i ad dextrose to my p/w shake it seems to turn straight into adipose tissue

                        i have no proof that it does for me, but i refer straight protein immediately p/w, followed by a huge meal and hour later
                        I used to be a fan of high-gi post but now I follow the same methodology. Straight protein post followed by a big meal an hour later.

                        I think that high-gi works better for people at lower bodyfat %s as well. My thoughts are that bcaa's and protein alone create enough of an insulin spike for nutrient shuttling, which makes the high gi carbs post less useful. Unless you are doing it to refill muscle glycogen, in which point I could see some benefit.

                        SCT
                        Back to the basics!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I understand. Wasn’t questioning your logic btw, just wanted to know your reason why.

                          In my experience, taking 30g of dextrose post workout really helps me to restore glycogen stores. Taking it pre workout doesn’t seem to really do squat as long as I’ve been eating properly. Now that I have my precious PW again, I’ll just sip on that pre- and during- workouts and I’m fine.

                          I measured out my dextrose after calibrating my scale and I had thought I was taking somewhere in the mid 40g’s but it was really about 30g’s. Seems to be the sweet spot for me. Thankfully it doesn’t turn into fat, and I’m staying lean. No need to mess around with a good thing. But I may look into palatinose for pre workout in the future. Just won’t be doing a sponsored log when I’m tinkering around though.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by browndustin
                            I understand. Wasn’t questioning your logic btw, just wanted to know your reason why.

                            In my experience, taking 30g of dextrose post workout really helps me to restore glycogen stores. Taking it pre workout doesn’t seem to really do squat as long as I’ve been eating properly. Now that I have my precious PW again, I’ll just sip on that pre- and during- workouts and I’m fine.

                            I measured out my dextrose after calibrating my scale and I had thought I was taking somewhere in the mid 40g’s but it was really about 30g’s. Seems to be the sweet spot for me. Thankfully it doesn’t turn into fat, and I’m staying lean. No need to mess around with a good thing. But I may look into palatinose for pre workout in the future. Just won’t be doing a sponsored log when I’m tinkering around though.
                            When I do use dextrose/malto post-workout my sweetspot was in the low 20s. That allowed me to stay in ketosis (I was low-carbin) as the entire amount was utilized immediately pwo.

                            SCT
                            Back to the basics!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              After fighting with post workout nausea and fatigue, I am not messing with my post workout carb intake lol. But thanks for your input. It’s amazing how much our bodies can differ. And it helps knowing what others are doing too.

                              All I know right now is that I’ve finally gots my damn PW and I’m happy, happy, happy.

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